These days, everybody’s talking Miley. Miley and her Vanity Fair photos. Miley and her so-called indecent photos by Annie Leibovitz. Miley and her official apologies for posing so undressed in Vanity Fair.
She features the June Issue of Vanity Fair, not even on the cover, and she already has the world talking ups and downs about the photo shoot. People are making financial assumptions (rumor has it there will be some stock effects on Disney), next you know, they’ll be making a subculture, a subreligion dealing with those pictures. What’s it all about? Well, this:
It’s not so damaging, right? Then again, it’s a 15 years old girl posing there… It doesn’t make it so normal anymore. Especially when reading that 15 years old Disney sensation Miley thinks that “This looks pretty, and really natural. I think it’s really artsy.” Besides an undead, unnatural, vampire-like look, I can’t see anything appropriate to her age in this famous sitting. But then again, that’s my eye and we all know how the world is hungry for another Brit case. Again, I’m not speculating, I’m not taking any controversial part, I’m just asking if this looks natural or artsy to you!
(photos via vanityfair)
60 comments
You know Kpriss, I always wondering why the (average) American are/is so prude. What’s the matter with these pics? Nothing, they are like Annie L. always take. It’s an artistic expression, these pics and I saw them all at the office are so innocent, that I really wonder why there is such a fuss about it. She even had to apologize? Is this all about her good name (till sofar) as Hanna Montana? Miley was actually proud on this pics and now suddenly if you read the US newspapers she isn’t anymore? These are innocent pics of a young girl who can make it in live (with or without Disney). It would be different if she did a shooting for Playboy and that kind of magazines. I’m really surprised what all the fuss is about and there is not any kind of controversy between you and me (this time) hahaha.
I forgot something. Since I’m living in Italy I can’t follow all the rumours of stories about her, but didn’t she has a huge singing? tour in the States? and was beloved by all the teens and even their mothers?
Hi kpriss, everything still fine overthere speaking about little girls? I hope so.
Coincidentally ‘Oprah’ which I hardly watch I can’t stand Ms Winfrey anymore these days….brrrrrrr….but sometimes I like to see her guests but more as a kind of observation. Anyway Oprah had Miley Cyrus and her father Billy Ray Cyrus as guests. After reading your piece and read all the fuss about this girl and that photo I found that interesting to watch being a foreigner, living in another culture. So I rushed to the tv last night. I know who she is and the hype around her, knows her father’s music so…..What I saw was not the usual 14 year old. She was 14 as she told the audience so this was clearly a repeat as we always get here.
This was or is a too young girl living a life of an adult but doesn’t go to school and has rules -after all this is Oprah- at home as every normal 14 year old. When Oprah asked if she found herself normal she answered with a firm “no” until my surprise. And she spent her “pocket-money” on a crocodile bag?? Of course she’s not a “normal” teen. While she looked like an older girl her daddy almost 50 tries to look as a 30 year old. It was beyond bizarre to watch these two! There were very young kids like 5 years old and even younger(!!) who got to see Hanna Montana as a well known Oprah-surprise. So not Miley Cyrus but Hanna Montana! They went mad, cried et all when they got confronted with their herion who did appear as Miley Cyrus by the way. The moms went mad when daddy came on stage. It was all too bizarre and very amusing at the same time.
Back to that photo. No, this photo doesn’t look natural or artsy to me at all. Not appropiate? Not in the eyes of a mother. What was Leibovitz thinking? What about the parents’ “normal teen rules?” It seems so normal these days to portray young girls like this. See the fashion industry too. Alas for Disney and miss Oprah but even more so for all her young fans Hanna/Miley isn’t that innocent young girl (anymore). That’s impossible with such a childhood. Leibovitz as well as Montana/Cyrus apologised to the mighty Disney company. What a joke! And hypocrite too. In no time Miley doesn’t need “Hanna” and therefore Disney anymore she made that clear to pose like this and does tour already in a bus with her whole family.
To me it is kid-explatation, same as in the fashion world. I’m not prudish at all. On the contrary. But there’s a limit for me when it comes to age in cases like this. It’s almost like being a kid isn’t allowed anymore……….
So this doesn’t look artsy or natural to me but more like to pleasure certain people? And Miley loves it that’s clear and knows exactly why she poses like this she can’t fool me and so can’t Annie Leibovitz.
(P.S. Sometimes it is so hard to make something clear in what’s not your mothers tongue I hope I’ve made some sense…here we go to click on submit…???? )
Artsy vs. Natural? Well, I guess if I had to pick between the two I would say that the photo is more “artsy” than anything else.
I don’t understand why people are freaking out. She doesn’t have a sex tape out there on the net, right?
the photo is actually beautiful. very artsy. nothing wrong with a 15 year old posing like that. it doesn’t look like she’s seducing anyone.
very nice photo of her. i love it.
@ Former posters, I must be old fashioned. I wouldn’t though if this was an older girl. But the signals she or/and Annie Leibovitz gives are very explicit. Some men get arrested for only own this kind of photos or has view them on sites. But if it is done by Annie Leibovitz……And I’m very protective towards young girls.
Maybe out of the context but if this is ok, why is Billy Bob Thornton’s 14 year old son a criminal because he has an affair -as it is rumoured- with a 22 year old girl? Or is the 22 year old girl the “criminal”? I’m confused now you see…….
Apologises to editor kpriss for the long replies. But I’m just aware of the phenomenon Cyrus/Montana.
It is a nice photo. Not that great. But the girl is too young to pose like that and therefore this doesn’t look natural or artsy to me.
I sometimes think that when dealing with public persons, everyone has their saying. And that wouldn’t be something wrong, of course everyone’s entitled to an opinion, but when talking about a public face 15 years old like she’s completely depicted of age it’s plain odd. It’s not puritanism, it’s not even exaggeration, it’s common empathy. For instance, if you take an average mother and ask her if she’ll aloud her teen age daughter to pose like that and having sent those picture all around the world, I highly doubt she would be so “understanding”.
When I first found the picture, I didn’t wanted to get to the moral bottom of the story, I just found her face strangely vampire-ish and led me into thinking she looked very much like a character played by Kirsten Dunst in the movie Interview With A Vampire (if you’re not familiar with the motion picture, the character was a little girl who became a vampire and later on, she realized the main disadvantage – she remained young/little forever even if she grew up in her head).
Undressed or provocative, Miley Cyrus is a media product and, as such, she should behave in the limits of her media personality. Unless she’s preparing to take over another media personality, this kind of pose is unlikely acceptable for her statute.
(Valerio, I’m no teenage mother, my kids are far younger than that… and no, I don’t fall into the Cyrus Senior fan category either, so, sincerely, I have nothing coming in the way of my fair judgment as far as these two are involved)
(Adriana, no need to apologize, we like comments full of substance, so when there’s something to say, don’t hold back on any account)
Kpriss I’m deeply sorry if you felt offended, by my words wasn’t she beloved by the teens and their mothers during her tour. My remark was meant for the general public and not to you personally. At the same time I understand what Adriana is saying about this 15 year old girl and her photoshooting. Let’s make one thing clear I still belive that there is no harm caused by this shooting. I actuall see these kind of pics more as photo’s which belongs in a family album rather then in whatever magazine. Arriverderci and I hope everything is alright with the little one and of course you and the family.
she looks awful, she does look like she step out of an interview with a vampire only that she forgot her clothes and had to wrap herself with a blanket, she looks pretty dead and vampire-like to me
she looks like the joker in dark knight, horrible and creepy!!!
No harm done, Valerio! I didn’t take it personally, just saying I wasn’t obscured in my observations by any admiration for this media-family.
Thank you, we’re doing fine, both girls in excellent health and condition and all the family ecstatic for the little princess!
Lula, Dulce, glad you saw the resemblance too! I was curious (when I first saw the pics) if this undead look was intentional!
I’ve seen that photo-shoot and the inteview on the Vanity Fair site some days ago. I’m far more disturbed now by the way father and daughter Cyrus do pose together……I leave it to this.
[…] It wasn’t that long that I asked myself (and everyone else) what was the story with the Miley Vanity Fair’s pictures, now this?! Well, Annie middle-name-Controversy Leibovitz, hasn’t this movie had enough publicity […]
Miley has been my total role modle until now. she looks goth and she thinks this behavor is ok ya right! I know evrybody makes mistakes but think to yourself this girl is 15 and i dont know about you but i dont do dirty pics like that and nither do my friends or anyone i know of miley was totally in the wrong here!!! and if you think this is ok… well lets just say evryone is intitled to there own opinon!!! I want the best for miley and hope she makes the right choice next time and i think that friend of hers (dont know her name but that back up dancer shes hanging out with) is RUDE she dosnt let miley hang with her own friends anymore evryones going to HATE HER if she keeps this up!
in the ´comic`she doesn` t beutiful. In this fhoto she is stupid. And now I´m not you fa. sorry but is true
[…] do appreciate her style, and her magnetism. She seems to have not only an eye for art, but also for controversy. And she sure has a uniqueness to her work (at least the fashion magazines work). Love her or hate […]
I think people who are saying this photo is revealing or horrible you are very wrong. Its not like miley was nude and showing off her body. The photographer was trying to create a message. And who really knows what that message was. But you should know that the photographer wasnt trying to create a dirty or vulgur message. She was trying to create art. Sure mothers and little children were offened by their dear “Hannah Montana” looking scary and in a sheet on the cover of a magazine. But miley is on to bigger and better things she is not the little girl she was when filming hannah montana she is 15 soon to be sixteen and if you take a look at society today normal teens are doing alot worse. So give miley a break for god’s Sake!!!!!
Just a question for Miley’s perspective: what’s the point of wanting to deliver a message if people don’t get what the message really is? What was the message for you?
If you think about it its kinda like one of those weird commercials where you have no idea why they are showing it or what its about but you are watching it and you have to take from it what you thought it meant and you cant go and ask someone oh what did you think of this commercial because each person will put it in their own point of view and if you took someone elses’s point of view then that means you cant speak for yourself and form your own opinion and that is what everyone else is doing to miley. Just becuase one ineresting photo was shot and one guy says “hey thats kinda provacative i bet i could sell it to the press and get a lot of money. And everyone else chose to beleive and go along with that story not giving any thought to what the picture actually could have been. I think that a message sent out that not many people might have noticed was that it is time for hannah montana parents to wake up because they were mostly the ones who were mad and i dont mean to be harsh but miley is moving away from hannah montana, and in the celeb world today young girls are doinh worse like vannessa hudgens naked schemme or sumthing or other and miley is growing up so people need to stop treating her so little. The way these photos were created was thgrough a vision and there wasnt really a message these photos were purely to sow art creativity and beauty and people who believe otherwise need to stop wathching so much tv!
There’s so little creativity in taking advantage of one’s early celebrity to turn everything into pouring cash. No matter how things are looked at, Miley still is a teenager, a delicate time in a girl’s life where messages shouldn’t be transmitted otherwise than in a natural progression of her age and status.
(btw – I never watch TV ;) you should try it from time to time, it’s refreshing)
Kpriss…I understand how you could interpret this picture as provocative but when looking at this photo in her eyes, do you see any kind of raunchy look or any suggestive themes at all? I am not a fan of her music, although she does have an amazing voice, but I can still see the innocence portrayed and I have no idea whatsoever why you would find this photo offensive at all. Now tell me. Look at this photo and tell me that these two are not artistically the same. They are both of young girls with the only part of their body exposed is their backs. The only difference is you will not look at this priceless painting and call her the next brittany spears or scorning this girl for posing for a purely artistic photo that shows nothing inapropriate whatsoever. She simply posed for a truely art orientated photo and of course, as with all young stars, the internet is a breeding ground for malicious and slanderous rumors. This 15 year old girl has done nothing wrong and if anyone has been inapropriate it is people like you who set out on a manhunt to find something wrong with every star.
Kelsey, if you would’ve read the article, it would’ve been clear to you that I don’t take sides nor do I judge her in any way besides her age and what 15 years girls are supposed to do at that moment in their lives. I only asked if the picture looked natural or artsy.
What I meant? Simple – a 15years old, charged with being her generation’s idol should know better than to set bad examples. Pictures of her linking to the media where she repeatedly exposes parts of her body in explicit provocative manner aren’t quite that innocent. Supposing this pose is unintentionally explicit, how do you explain the “natural pose”? The painting you used to exemplify your point of view is a relatively normal moment in a girl/woman’s everyday life, the mirror routine. Now if you look at Miley and tell me she’s in one of those routines, I’d say you’re imagining things. She’s posing directly to the camera. She’s looking strangely unchildish.
What I think she wanted to say by posing that way? That she wants to be taken seriously. That she wants people to see that she’s growing up. Fast.
Why I think this picture is completely inappropriate? Because young personalities are easy to tempt and because there are some personality disordered men out there very pleased by her tender age and daring pose.
People like me, people like you are entitled to an opinion. Seeing a manhunt in free expression is delusional.
miley cyrus looks artsy but nothings wrong with the photo its looks petty as what she said miley. people make it a big deal thinking shes going to change and going to get kicked of and have a horrible life cm people shes not naked in the photo shes covered.
Love the photo miley
people definitely freaked out about nothing with this pic. girls wear less than this to the club or even to the mall every day. get over it people it isnt scandalous. its her BACK for christ’s sake.
I saw that in The Ring.
What are people smoking??! thats “Hannha Montana”, a 6year old girls’ idol. Miley Cyrus is way to caught up in Hollywood and needs to know her own age. Act 15 MILEY, sing to 6year olds, not takeing pictures, you dont even look good in!
well, although i like her personality and i admire what she managed to do so far, these pictures are out of place. Let’s not forget that she is or is supposed to be a ‘model’ for kids all over the world… (that’s what all super-stars/ singers are…that’s why we like to have artists in our lives) she looks here like she just woke up after a night of S*X (no offense).
i strongly believe these pics are not normal and any sane person will think same knowing her age.
i am sorry we have to live in an insane world, but that’s what this has become and we are all responsible for it. i am not “FOR” the strict rules and regulations but everything has a limit.
Come on! Miley Cyrus is not going to be Hannah Montana forever. She’s just growing up, not being scandalous. Girls our age (14-17) do far worse things than this. Until I hear of her going on an ecstasy binge and having sex videos or nude shots on the internet, I’m not going to think she is doing anything bad. Young girls flaunt around showing more skin on a daily basis. I think it’s unfair for her to have to make a public apology for a picture that’s not even racy.
um….x cuse me. what is wrong with looking like a vampire..THEY RULE!!!!
(just tryin to ease the tension)
Im no prude. Far from it. Im fairly liberal, but if she was just some random girl, this would be considered child porn, and perhaps righfully so…
I don’t like that picture of miley she looks horrible. miley if u see this I am really sorry but I am a huge fan of yours
“Artsy.”
That being said, I feel like adding my personal 2 Cents.
This comes as a completely unbiased opinion. I have never watched “Hannah Montana”, have never heard Ms. Cyrus sing nor have I ever been a fan of her Father or Annie Leibovitz.
I suppose I see a darker, sinister look to her, which you could link to being vampire-esque. Though I honestly don’t see it as too revealing or shocking of a photo.
You made a comment about the mirror oil-painting being a part of every day life and therefor it is, for lack of a better word, good art. What’s to say Miley’s pose couldn’t be part of everyday life?
Perhaps it’s, as was previously mentioned, to show personal growth. Change. Maybe she just sat up out of bed, different than when she first fell asleep. Perhaps to reflect how she has changed since her life in the spotlight began. Maybe she feels forced to act an older age in order to pertain to a new audience which she will soon have to relate to. No one stays childhood stars forever. Ask the two Corey’s.
On the issue of age… I am not a parent, though I understand the impression she gives to the younger audience. Was it a poor choice? Yes. But, I would love to see reactions to the photo in half of an millennium from now, when Hannah Montana and/or Miley Cyrus are not household names.
In closing… give her a break. Every poor choice the young girl will make from now until she is forgotten will be broadcast around the world. Ask yourself how good of a role model you would have been for your generation.
oh my god this must all be a joke because this is the most pathetic thing ever, who gives a f*k if she looks like a f*ing vampire, let her life her life u sad people and instead go save some childrens lifes in africa or something! for gods sake get a grip
I just blasted my 13 yr old cousin for posing like this on her myspace page. Since she is in the age group that follows Ms. Cyrus I don’t approve of the picture.
Had she been a few years older maybe I could’ve seen it as art but she’s NOT..she’s still very much a minor.
quality of the photoshoot and effects are neat but she’s too young.
pobre miley ella no lo hizo con malas intenciones ademas ella es menor de edad y seguro q lo hizo porq su padre le ordeno
i think that the pose isnt all that weird, its art, but i hate her makeup and the way her hair is done, it looks stupid
well she’s not bad anybody taking about miley cyrus badly canv shut is mouth up !!! i don’t say that a person who hates miley is { obligé } 2 like her but just don’t try 2 heart her fans feelings
PLS , DONT DO THE OPPOSET!
byezzz moahhh
jana
hauntingly beautiful art, pure and innocent. nothing more, nothing less
The picture was made to look like this wasn’t it? So I really don’t see the problem. Like it or not Miley Cyrus will be wanting to do more than Disney Channel Hannah Montana. She is going to be taking different roles. There is no real nudity. Mild maybe. It is Artsy to me.
Maybe it’s a little bit artsy, but I don’t see a problem. It’s not like she’s nude or anything. Come on, this is the 21st centry, not the 1920-s. There’s nothing wrong with such photos these days.
She is freaken 16 she sets a bad example for all of her fans and family i surprised that people still like her and i mean shes awesome and she inspires me in every way just like the jonas brothers i wish she had never done this but shes 16 shes gotta do!!! And miley you are absolutely amazing and well lets pray and hope this never happens…!!!!
i still like miley even though people got the photo all wrong just becaues she is dress like that.
First of all, I don’t like this picture at all. I don’t think she even looks good in it. Second of all, she is so young. To me, this picture makes her seem more vain. She has enough going on. She sells enough things. I know she gives a lot back to charity, but I get the impression that she wants a lot of publicity and money.
She is so young too. With all the stuff going on for her, I don’t see why this picture is even needed.
And for people commenting with… let her live her own life. I think her dad influences a lot with her life decisions, so who really knows how much of her own life she is living.
She can do whatever she wants. I don’t care. I don’t look up to her or anything, but you asked what I thought about the picture. And I think it is unnecessary.
She is beautiful and sexy and is proud of her body as she should be so all you haters grow up…opinions are like a*s everyone has one : )
miley!
não é a miley ela nunca faria um acoisas dessas eu sou a maior fan dela e acho que ela nao faria esse tipo de coisas…
E aquela foto nua dela nao é ela
EU AMO A MILEY!!!!!!!
TE AMO
TE AMO
TE AMO
ah eu acho que vc deve voltar com o nick ele é um gato e te ama… nao deve ficar com aquela cabeçuda da selena!!
AMO VC MILEY e AMO VC NICK
BY:FLÁVIA
I see that it is a little inappropriate. But they should have gave her a Vampire look dress or a gothic dress. I am outraged that the father or mother allowed there daughter to completely or half Nude (Just on the Top) with a blanket or sheath covering her breasts. The Parents should have make this portrait or picture less adult like to rated ‘G’.
Im 16 and i honestly agree. Then again i am an extremely artsy person and love creative photography. i believe that miley is right when she says its a natural look and its really quite artst. its the girls back for christs sake!
I think its an artsy photo. I don’t see why it’s a big deal at all. Nothing’s exposed besides her back, and it’s not very sexual. There may be a bit of a dark feel about it, but not ‘creepy or weird.’
She shouldn’t apologize for a professional photo shoot just cause she works for Disney, and everyone expects them to act like innocent little children.
Just a side note. I really dislike Miley, it just annoys me how narrow minded people are being about it.
It’s artsy and natural, totally. I can see a pretty girl in this photo, and nothing about sex
Ok, so this picture is artsy, to me. It looks like something someone would paint. Yup, it looks like a vampire. But she’s only 15. It just encourages her to take more pictures of herself. Not really cool…
omg what happend to her she used to be some sweet little 13 year old but now she jus some tr**p
i think that this picture is inapropriate. she needs to learn how to be her age. i am her age and i do not dress like that, nor do i have pictures like she does on google with half her body out for the public eye to see. I have never liked miley cyrus and i never will due to the pictures that have come out, the way she talks to interveiwers, she just comes off as a nasty person.
I think that this picture would be fine for an older person in it, but not a 15 year old. If this is what she does at 15 how will she be posing at 18…playboy? I do not mind the vampire part at all that is fine just the blanket for clothing part. This gets guys minds going. Wondering what else is under there. Well, with the other pics she has out now it is getting smaller and smaller idea of wondering to almost seeing. Not a great influence to girls her age and younger. If the she was waring a higher up halter top it might be ok but the back goes to almost her butt and her hands are the only thing holding up the front. It is bad enough there is a child porn industry out there and predators. They do not need any more motivation.
this isn’t artsy or natural this is all slutty i wish they could just stop her from being so famous and all those other good opportunities and they should leave her on the streets because this is what this picture looks like!!!!!!
I am 19 years old and I think people, especially parents should know that celebrities should not be a role model to their children. Parents suppose to be the role model; they’re the ones that teach the child, not some other person that has nothing to do with their lives, besides entreating… Stop making other people responsible for the lost of many young people and start doing your work as parents.
All I’m going to say is that if this were a painting done by Da Vinci (and it does look like many famous paintings of similarly-aged girls), we’d be lauding how beautiful, natural, artsy, and innocent it looks. I think it’s disgusting to condemn this and turn a blind eye to “nudity” in other forms of art. You’re either completely for it or completely against it.
The difference between art and indecency is not how the public views it, but how the creator views it. Yes, that’s why we have porn, but that’s also why child indecency is able to be illegal. It’s about who is being targeted.
Besides, even if it is provocative, at 15 years old she’s old enough to have sex if she wants, as is every other 15-year-old. It may not be “legal”, but at 15 years old, I was perfectly able to go out and make an informed, intelligent decision (I didn’t, but I’m just saying if I hadn’t been ugly, I could have had a decent sexual relationship). 15-year-olds are always going to flaunt themselves like this, and the fact that Miley makes it beautiful instead of slutty is wonderful. It’s a breath of fresh air compared to the crap we’re subjected to by the likes of Ke$ha and Paris.
Plus, if she were just one year older, she’d be completely legal to take fully naked pictures of herself and consent to a sexual relationship with anyone she wanted. Why is one year such a big difference?
I think this is a very artsy picture but considering the fact she is only 15 just makes it wrong in so many ways. im not a fan of Miley anymore simply bc im not interested in her music much. but to the people who are fans, this is not a very good example because kids tend to copy wat stars do and this, in my opinion, was a bad choice for Miley.
Interestingly and very surprisingly, I don’t mind this picture, even accounting for her age. I do find this picture rather artistic, and I don’t think she looks remotely provocative. She’s not wearing an expression of ‘want it?’ or ‘come get it’, she has an expression of ancient secrecy and wisdom. Her bare mid-upper back is the big controversy? If she were a boy would a bare back be considered so sexual? Consider that the perversion may be ours and not that a 15 year old girl doesn’t have quite enough sexual shame appropriate for her age. Personally I think it’s beautiful and she should proud, not apologetic.
Although I know the comments left here were several years ago, and the story is also several years old, I’m writing a dissertation on censorship so am having to do plenty of research in to the case.
This is nothing like the Britney & Rolling stones scenario, why? because the props are not tacky, the props are not the main feature – this isn’t the sort of image you would find in a lads mag, unlike that taken by David LaChapelle.
Secondly, all of the parents complaining that there children are viewing the image and what not… what are they doing reading Vanity Fair Magazine in the first place? The target audience is for those well over the age of the target audience for ‘hannah montana’. It is for at least ages 18/20 – 40/50, not ‘6 year olds’ or ’13 year olds’. It has many references to sex, money, work and life in it – why would your children view this? So how did they see the photograph of Miley, unless you let them look at it exactly? As well as looking on the internet. You should be watching them, if they could look at the photograph of Ms Cyrus, what else could they be looking at without you knowing? Society has changed a lot since most of you guys were that age.. you do have to move on with times.
The image is perfect – it isn’t provocative or seductive unless you imagine it to be. If you look at the behind the scenes videos/photos on VFs website you can see that she is in fact wearing clothing. The outfit in the photograph, although bed sheets, is nothing less than a dress she would probably wear on the red carpet.
Just my little input – as a lot of the comments which I have read throughout my research have really got on my nerves. So many mis-informed parents, and so many who should think about what they are saying before hand. Really think about it. How on earth did your kids manage to see this image…? When Miley was 15 her mental age would have been at least 18, is that not the age which your kids would go off to college and live on their own with college room mates? No doubt under-age drinking and goodness knows what…
think about it…
a female UK student, aged almost 21.
You are over reacting! there is nothing wrong with this picture. Guess you need eye glasses and start appreciating real beauty and art. People evolve dude. And I think you don’t know much about evolving. You’re being too judgmental just because of this picture, just because you can’t see it too what you called “artsy”.
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